NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

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NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Alex Vidal
I think that the adoption and development of NakedMud would move a lot faster and be much more accessible if we had a website (at least a bug tracker) that talks about it. I know at one time nakedmud.org was a live site, but it had very little content.

fake edit: i just noticed the domain expired, so I grabbed it. If you want it Geoff, I'll transfer it over to you.

Now that nakedmud.org is registered again, we should look at running a website with a bug tracker/source control, such as trac.  We can have forums there as well, for people that want to develop on the nakedmud source, and for people that want to develop muds using nakedmud as the codebase.

Geoff: Is nakedmud currently in source control? If so, I'd love to be able to import the source tree into something like Trac or some other equivalent.

For now, I'll put links on the nakedmud.org page to the mailing list as well as the current nakedmud 'website' (http://homepages.uc.edu/~hollisgf/nakedmud.html)
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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Alex Vidal
Haha, I just noticed the nakedmud.net in my address bar. Well, we can always use both domains, have one point to the other or what have you.
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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Geoff Hollis
In reply to this post by Alex Vidal
1. I would love to have a wiki-type bugtracker, or at the least some  
sort of form where people can submit bugs/fixes they've identified.  
The less involvement it requires from me to maintain, the better.

2. I am canceling my mudmagic hosting in the next couple weeks. As  
sad as it is, I cannot afford $10/month on my student salary. Patrick  
Neilsen has just offered to host us for free (<3). If you plan on  
keeping nakedmud.org, let's see if we can redirect it to his hosting  
machine (ohh wait, I guess I should check if he's going to give me  
http priviledges as well...?). I'd offer to pay for the domain but,  
as per mudmagic, I just can't afford it right now. If you don't want  
to carry the burden of paying for the domain name either, that's  
perfectly understandable.

3. Forums would rock.

4. No, NakedMud isn't in source control. I intend to keep it this  
way. The core engine is my hobby project. Being a hobby project, I  
like to keep the number of rigid structures constraining it to a  
minimum, lest my hobby time be filled with dealing with formalities  
(and it will be, as soon as there's other people with access to NM  
through versioning software). In the long run, I realize this is a  
very bad on my part. However, from a hobby standpoint, it's the path  
I want to take. People are still encouraged to develop/proliferate  
their own stand-alone modules (which I will gladly post on the  
website if people send them to me) as a means of adding to the  
codebase, but keeping it independent from the core. I acknowledge  
this reasoning is horribly faulty, and that a million reasons could  
be spun up as to why NM should be in a versioning system, online. I  
still highly doubt I'll change my ways. Call me an anti-perfectionist  
and/or a control freak if you must...

The bottom line: a website with more content would rock. I am  
especially interested in forums, and/or a way for people to submit  
bugs that can be automatically tracked in some sort of log (because  
when people send me stuff via email, 50% I forget to add it to my  
todo list).

The bottomer line: the less overhead I have to deal with, the better.  
Chances are nil that I would set up a functional website and forums  
myself. Not because I don't think it's useful, just because I'm not  
interested in doing it. However, if someone else were to get  
everything you've described set up, I'd make sure it gets hosted.

p.s., In principle, I'm not opposed to getting NM set up in cvs, svn,  
or Trac, online. I just don't want my "master version" of the code to  
have any interaction with it. If this were to, say, be set up on  
nakedmud.org, I'd be perfectly happy if each official release were  
retroactively integrated into the source tree as a means for  
distribution and tracking changes from each official release to the  
next. I just don't want to have to be the person who deals with it.  
So someone else would need to volunteer for this burden.

Geoff

On Sep 17, 2008, at 6:11 PM, Alex Vidal wrote:

>
> I think that the adoption and development of NakedMud would move a  
> lot faster
> and be much more accessible if we had a website (at least a bug  
> tracker)
> that talks about it. I know at one time nakedmud.org was a live  
> site, but it
> had very little content.
>
> fake edit: i just noticed the domain expired, so I grabbed it. If  
> you want
> it Geoff, I'll transfer it over to you.
>
> Now that nakedmud.org is registered again, we should look at running a
> website with a bug tracker/source control, such as trac. We can  
> have forums
> there as well, for people that want to develop on the nakedmud  
> source, and
> for people that want to develop muds using nakedmud as the codebase.
>
> Geoff: Is nakedmud currently in source control? If so, I'd love to  
> be able
> to import the source tree into something like Trac or some other  
> equivalent.
>
> For now, I'll put links on the nakedmud.org page to the mailing  
> list as well
> as the current nakedmud 'website'
> (http://homepages.uc.edu/~hollisgf/nakedmud.html)
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/NakedMud-Website- 
> and-Bug-Tracker--tp1096727p1096727.html
> Sent from the NakedMUD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>

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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Patrick M. Nielsen
For sure I can host the static files and a version control repository -- an
instance of Trac and a forum I'm a little more worried about -- at least in
the long-term. The question is, does NakedMud really need a forum? There's
already a mailing list, there'll be a wiki, but a forum too?

Actually... Google Code (code.google.com) (Wiki, release distribution,
bug/issue tracker, source control (but not obligatory)) can do all of the
above without anyone really having to 'set up' anything, and it's ...well,
free as in beer. Its bug tracker beats managing bug threads in a forum
anyday. I'd do this, personally; make http://code.google.com/nakedmud the
website+wiki+bugtracking+CVS (if you want to) and refer people to this
group/mailing list for discussion.

Google Groups is a more forum-style mailing list, but switching at this
point isn't feasible I suppose. I find this mailing list, minus all the
stupidly large Yahoo ads of course, perfectly sufficient for discussion --
the project doesn't really have the level of chatter to make both that AND a
forum attractive, imo.

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 1:09 AM, Geoff Hollis <[hidden email]> wrote:

>    1. I would love to have a wiki-type bugtracker, or at the least some
> sort of form where people can submit bugs/fixes they've identified. The less
> involvement it requires from me to maintain, the better.
>
> 2. I am canceling my mudmagic hosting in the next couple weeks. As sad as
> it is, I cannot afford $10/month on my student salary. Patrick Neilsen has
> just offered to host us for free (<3). If you plan on keeping nakedmud.org,
> let's see if we can redirect it to his hosting machine (ohh wait, I guess I
> should check if he's going to give me http priviledges as well...?). I'd
> offer to pay for the domain but, as per mudmagic, I just can't afford it
> right now. If you don't want to carry the burden of paying for the domain
> name either, that's perfectly understandable.
>
> 3. Forums would rock.
>
> 4. No, NakedMud isn't in source control. I intend to keep it this way. The
> core engine is my hobby project. Being a hobby project, I like to keep the
> number of rigid structures constraining it to a minimum, lest my hobby time
> be filled with dealing with formalities (and it will be, as soon as there's
> other people with access to NM through versioning software). In the long
> run, I realize this is a very bad on my part. However, from a hobby
> standpoint, it's the path I want to take. People are still encouraged to
> develop/proliferate their own stand-alone modules (which I will gladly post
> on the website if people send them to me) as a means of adding to the
> codebase, but keeping it independent from the core. I acknowledge this
> reasoning is horribly faulty, and that a million reasons could be spun up as
> to why NM should be in a versioning system, online. I still highly doubt
> I'll change my ways. Call me an anti-perfectionist and/or a control freak if
> you must...
>
> The bottom line: a website with more content would rock. I am especially
> interested in forums, and/or a way for people to submit bugs that can be
> automatically tracked in some sort of log (because when people send me stuff
> via email, 50% I forget to add it to my todo list).
>
> The bottomer line: the less overhead I have to deal with, the better.
> Chances are nil that I would set up a functional website and forums myself.
> Not because I don't think it's useful, just because I'm not interested in
> doing it. However, if someone else were to get everything you've described
> set up, I'd make sure it gets hosted.
>
> p.s., In principle, I'm not opposed to getting NM set up in cvs, svn, or
> Trac, online. I just don't want my "master version" of the code to have any
> interaction with it. If this were to, say, be set up on nakedmud.org, I'd
> be perfectly happy if each official release were retroactively integrated
> into the source tree as a means for distribution and tracking changes from
> each official release to the next. I just don't want to have to be the
> person who deals with it. So someone else would need to volunteer for this
> burden.
>
> Geoff
>
> On Sep 17, 2008, at 6:11 PM, Alex Vidal wrote:
>
>
> I think that the adoption and development of NakedMud would move a lot
> faster
> and be much more accessible if we had a website (at least a bug tracker)
> that talks about it. I know at one time nakedmud.org was a live site, but
> it
> had very little content.
>
> fake edit: i just noticed the domain expired, so I grabbed it. If you want
> it Geoff, I'll transfer it over to you.
>
> Now that nakedmud.org is registered again, we should look at running a
> website with a bug tracker/source control, such as trac. We can have forums
> there as well, for people that want to develop on the nakedmud source, and
> for people that want to develop muds using nakedmud as the codebase.
>
> Geoff: Is nakedmud currently in source control? If so, I'd love to be able
> to import the source tree into something like Trac or some other
> equivalent.
>
> For now, I'll put links on the nakedmud.org page to the mailing list as
> well
> as the current nakedmud 'website'
> (http://homepages.uc.edu/~hollisgf/nakedmud.html<http://homepages.uc.edu/%7Ehollisgf/nakedmud.html>
> )
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/NakedMud-Website-and-Bug-Tracker--tp1096727p1096727.html
> Sent from the NakedMUD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>  
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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Matt Adcock
In reply to this post by Geoff Hollis
I can completely understand why you don't want to put NM in source control -
I don't use it for any of my hobby projects either. However, putting in in
source control but still retaining a master version that you work on
independently with changes merged back in just sounds insane to me. It seems
like that would defeat the purpose of having it in source control to begin
with.

Bug tracking would be nice to have though and Google Code sounds like it
would fit the bill just fine with minimal setup and maintenance.

2008/9/18 Geoff Hollis <[hidden email]>

>    1. I would love to have a wiki-type bugtracker, or at the least some
> sort of form where people can submit bugs/fixes they've identified. The less
> involvement it requires from me to maintain, the better.
>
> 2. I am canceling my mudmagic hosting in the next couple weeks. As sad as
> it is, I cannot afford $10/month on my student salary. Patrick Neilsen has
> just offered to host us for free (<3). If you plan on keeping nakedmud.org,
> let's see if we can redirect it to his hosting machine (ohh wait, I guess I
> should check if he's going to give me http priviledges as well...?). I'd
> offer to pay for the domain but, as per mudmagic, I just can't afford it
> right now. If you don't want to carry the burden of paying for the domain
> name either, that's perfectly understandable.
>
> 3. Forums would rock.
>
> 4. No, NakedMud isn't in source control. I intend to keep it this way. The
> core engine is my hobby project. Being a hobby project, I like to keep the
> number of rigid structures constraining it to a minimum, lest my hobby time
> be filled with dealing with formalities (and it will be, as soon as there's
> other people with access to NM through versioning software). In the long
> run, I realize this is a very bad on my part. However, from a hobby
> standpoint, it's the path I want to take. People are still encouraged to
> develop/proliferate their own stand-alone modules (which I will gladly post
> on the website if people send them to me) as a means of adding to the
> codebase, but keeping it independent from the core. I acknowledge this
> reasoning is horribly faulty, and that a million reasons could be spun up as
> to why NM should be in a versioning system, online. I still highly doubt
> I'll change my ways. Call me an anti-perfectionist and/or a control freak if
> you must...
>
> The bottom line: a website with more content would rock. I am especially
> interested in forums, and/or a way for people to submit bugs that can be
> automatically tracked in some sort of log (because when people send me stuff
> via email, 50% I forget to add it to my todo list).
>
> The bottomer line: the less overhead I have to deal with, the better.
> Chances are nil that I would set up a functional website and forums myself.
> Not because I don't think it's useful, just because I'm not interested in
> doing it. However, if someone else were to get everything you've described
> set up, I'd make sure it gets hosted.
>
> p.s., In principle, I'm not opposed to getting NM set up in cvs, svn, or
> Trac, online. I just don't want my "master version" of the code to have any
> interaction with it. If this were to, say, be set up on nakedmud.org, I'd
> be perfectly happy if each official release were retroactively integrated
> into the source tree as a means for distribution and tracking changes from
> each official release to the next. I just don't want to have to be the
> person who deals with it. So someone else would need to volunteer for this
> burden.
>
> Geoff
>
> On Sep 17, 2008, at 6:11 PM, Alex Vidal wrote:
>
>
> I think that the adoption and development of NakedMud would move a lot
> faster
> and be much more accessible if we had a website (at least a bug tracker)
> that talks about it. I know at one time nakedmud.org was a live site, but
> it
> had very little content.
>
> fake edit: i just noticed the domain expired, so I grabbed it. If you want
> it Geoff, I'll transfer it over to you.
>
> Now that nakedmud.org is registered again, we should look at running a
> website with a bug tracker/source control, such as trac. We can have forums
> there as well, for people that want to develop on the nakedmud source, and
> for people that want to develop muds using nakedmud as the codebase.
>
> Geoff: Is nakedmud currently in source control? If so, I'd love to be able
> to import the source tree into something like Trac or some other
> equivalent.
>
> For now, I'll put links on the nakedmud.org page to the mailing list as
> well
> as the current nakedmud 'website'
> (http://homepages.uc.edu/~hollisgf/nakedmud.html<http://homepages.uc.edu/%7Ehollisgf/nakedmud.html>
> )
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/NakedMud-Website-and-Bug-Tracker--tp1096727p1096727.html
> Sent from the NakedMUD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>  
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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Kevin Morgan
In reply to this post by Alex Vidal
Oh, I didn't even realize it was expired.. I have nakedmud.net, tho.



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alex Vidal
> Sent: 09/17/08 05:11 pm
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [nakedmud] NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?
>
>
> I think that the adoption and development of NakedMud would move a lot
> faster
> and be much more accessible if we had a website (at least a bug tracker)
> that talks about it. I know at one time nakedmud.org was a live site, but
> it
> had very little content.
>
> fake edit: i just noticed the domain expired, so I grabbed it. If you
> want
> it Geoff, I'll transfer it over to you.
>
> Now that nakedmud.org is registered again, we should look at running a
> website with a bug tracker/source control, such as trac.  We can have
> forums
> there as well, for people that want to develop on the nakedmud source,
> and
> for people that want to develop muds using nakedmud as the codebase.
>
> Geoff: Is nakedmud currently in source control? If so, I'd love to be
> able
> to import the source tree into something like Trac or some other
> equivalent.
>
> For now, I'll put links on the nakedmud.org page to the mailing list as
> well
> as the current nakedmud 'website'
> (http://homepages.uc.edu/~hollisgf/nakedmud.html)
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/NakedMud-Website-and-Bug-Tracker--tp1096727p1096727.html
> Sent from the NakedMUD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Kaylus
Administrator
As you can probably see, I had a silly looking little CMS up at Nakedmud.net, I'm not partial to it at all and I was just experimenting with single-sign-on and Nabble to create an easy to use Forum for NakedMUD. I still use the Nabble Forum occassionally because I'm partial to reading these threads in order.

But if anybody wants to help put together a website, let me know -- I can host the sites, or someone else can take the .net and host the sites. I'm not picky either way ;-)


Kevin Morgan wrote
Oh, I didn't even realize it was expired.. I have nakedmud.net, tho.
... I'm going to live to 150 years old -- or at least die trying.
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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Alex Vidal
In reply to this post by Alex Vidal
In regards to a forum and mailing list, I think we should just not use a mailing list at all, and instead use a forum. Then again, I've always disliked mailing lists :D

In regards to source control, me and Geoff have been communicating via email and we may have come to a compromise. It's still pending acceptance, but my idea was to have an 'upstream' branch that Geoff alone commits to, and when there's a new release, he can tell me and I'll run a script to generate the patches as well as merge it into the trunk and tag a new release. Google Code would work just fine for most of our needs.

The way I envision it, we could have a main site that talks about NM and hosts docs and tips/tricks, as well as examples, with a link to the project on googlecode and a real forum. I just think that mailing lists don't really facilitate discussion these days, although Nabble goes a lot further towards making them user-friendly.

At the very least, I'll see about setting something up locally.
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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Patrick M. Nielsen
>The way I envision it, we could have a main site that talks about NM and
> hosts docs and tips/tricks, as well as examples,

Google Code has a wiki that can service those needs, but yup, sounds nice.
I'm a bit old-fashioned in regards to mailing lists vs. forums, then again,
this is a mailing list about a MUD, isn't it? ;)

But yeah, let me know if you need anything static-ish hosted. I don't have
the resources on my Slice to set up another stack unfortunately -- might
upgrade sometime.

PS: By e-mail, I really mean Gmail. Regular non-threaded e-mail sucks.

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Alex Vidal <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> In regards to a forum and mailing list, I think we should just not use a
> mailing list at all, and instead use a forum. Then again, I've always
> disliked mailing lists :D
>
> In regards to source control, me and Geoff have been communicating via
> email
> and we may have come to a compromise. It's still pending acceptance, but my
> idea was to have an 'upstream' branch that Geoff alone commits to, and when
> there's a new release, he can tell me and I'll run a script to generate the
> patches as well as merge it into the trunk and tag a new release. Google
> Code would work just fine for most of our needs.
>
> The way I envision it, we could have a main site that talks about NM and
> hosts docs and tips/tricks, as well as examples, with a link to the project
> on googlecode and a real forum. I just think that mailing lists don't
> really
> facilitate discussion these days, although Nabble goes a lot further
> towards
> making them user-friendly.
>
> At the very least, I'll see about setting something up locally.
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/NakedMud-Website-and-Bug-Tracker--tp1096727p1098531.html
>
> Sent from the NakedMUD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>  
>
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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Alex Vidal

Patrick M. Nielsen wrote
Google Code has a wiki that can service those needs, but yup, sounds nice.
I'm a bit old-fashioned in regards to mailing lists vs. forums, then again,
this is a mailing list about a MUD, isn't it? ;)
If we went with google code, Geoff would have to pick a valid license, since they don't have a selection for 'whatever you want, just leave credit where credit is due' :D

It's easy enough for me to setup something like Redmine or Trac, which will do everything we want as well.
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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Magicked
In reply to this post by Kaylus
I have a decent amount of experience setting up and configuring various packages on Linux servers, but I'm not much for web design.  If you need any help though, I'd be willing to jump in where I can.

Also, while mailing lists can be fine, I'm a bit more partial to forums myself.  I like to read things in order, and I find forums give a much better presentation overall.  Plus, if we had our own forums hosted on our own server, we wouldn't have to go through a 3rd party like Yahoo.

Just my thoughts. :)

Kaylus wrote
As you can probably see, I had a silly looking little CMS up at Nakedmud.net, I'm not partial to it at all and I was just experimenting with single-sign-on and Nabble to create an easy to use Forum for NakedMUD. I still use the Nabble Forum occassionally because I'm partial to reading these threads in order.

But if anybody wants to help put together a website, let me know -- I can host the sites, or someone else can take the .net and host the sites. I'm not picky either way ;-)
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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Geoff Hollis
In reply to this post by Patrick M. Nielsen
A few thoughts.

Forums: I'm mainly interested in these because I've always felt that,  
for a new reader, the barrier of entry for a forum is lower than that  
of a mailing it. It also makes more prominent past discussions, so  
topics don't completely fall out of visibility once people stop  
discussing them.

Wiki: The main purpose would as a means of cataloging "useful  
information for development" and "stuff that needs to be done".  
However, on the scale of a MUD codebase, forums do this just as well.  
So it would be an or thing. Either we go with a wiki and keep the  
mailing list OR we go with forums.

Source Control: Ok, so here's something I'm hazy on. For tracking/
distributing releases, what are the benefits of source control over  
how I'm currently doing it? My intuition was that having source  
control would make things a little easier to track, and a little more  
straightforward to distribute. Even though I really have no interest  
in my master copy interacting with source control, if it means easier  
distribution and tracking, I could bite the bullet and check in my  
master copy after every major release. If source control doesn't  
really add anything practical, though, I might have to rethink this.

Googlecode: I like google, I like beer. I'll have to take a look.

On Sep 18, 2008, at 2:14 AM, Patrick Mylund Nielsen wrote:

>
> For sure I can host the static files and a version control  
> repository -- an instance of Trac and a forum I'm a little more  
> worried about -- at least in the long-term. The question is, does  
> NakedMud really need a forum? There's already a mailing list,  
> there'll be a wiki, but a forum too?
>
> Actually... Google Code (code.google.com) (Wiki, release  
> distribution, bug/issue tracker, source control (but not  
> obligatory)) can do all of the above without anyone really having  
> to 'set up' anything, and it's ...well, free as in beer. Its bug  
> tracker beats managing bug threads in a forum anyday. I'd do this,  
> personally; makehttp://code.google.com/nakedmud the website+wiki
> +bugtracking+CVS (if you want to) and refer people to this group/
> mailing list for discussion.
>
> Google Groups is a more forum-style mailing list, but switching at  
> this point isn't feasible I suppose. I find this mailing list,  
> minus all the stupidly large Yahoo ads of course, perfectly  
> sufficient for discussion -- the project doesn't really have the  
> level of chatter to make both that AND a forum attractive, imo.
>
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 1:09 AM, Geoff Hollis <[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
>
> 1. I would love to have a wiki-type bugtracker, or at the least  
> some sort of form where people can submit bugs/fixes they've  
> identified. The less involvement it requires from me to maintain,  
> the better.
>
> 2. I am canceling my mudmagic hosting in the next couple weeks. As  
> sad as it is, I cannot afford $10/month on my student salary.  
> Patrick Neilsen has just offered to host us for free (<3). If you  
> plan on keeping nakedmud.org, let's see if we can redirect it to  
> his hosting machine (ohh wait, I guess I should check if he's going  
> to give me http priviledges as well...?). I'd offer to pay for the  
> domain but, as per mudmagic, I just can't afford it right now. If  
> you don't want to carry the burden of paying for the domain name  
> either, that's perfectly understandable.
>
> 3. Forums would rock.
>
> 4. No, NakedMud isn't in source control. I intend to keep it this  
> way. The core engine is my hobby project. Being a hobby project, I  
> like to keep the number of rigid structures constraining it to a  
> minimum, lest my hobby time be filled with dealing with formalities  
> (and it will be, as soon as there's other people with access to NM  
> through versioning software). In the long run, I realize this is a  
> very bad on my part. However, from a hobby standpoint, it's the  
> path I want to take. People are still encouraged to develop/
> proliferate their own stand-alone modules (which I will gladly post  
> on the website if people send them to me) as a means of adding to  
> the codebase, but keeping it independent from the core. I  
> acknowledge this reasoning is horribly faulty, and that a million  
> reasons could be spun up as to why NM should be in a versioning  
> system, online. I still highly doubt I'll change my ways. Ca! ll me  
> an anti-perfectionist and/or a control freak if you must...
>
> The bottom line: a website with more content would rock. I am  
> especially interested in forums, and/or a way for people to submit  
> bugs that can be automatically tracked in some sort of log (because  
> when people send me stuff via email, 50% I forget to add it to my  
> todo list).
>
> The bottomer line: the less overhead I have to deal with, the  
> better. Chances are nil that I would set up a functional website  
> and forums myself. Not because I don't think it's useful, just  
> because I'm not interested in doing it. However, if someone else  
> were to get everything you've described set up, I'd make sure it  
> gets hosted.
>
> p.s., In principle, I'm not opposed to getting NM set up in cvs,  
> svn, or Trac, online. I just don't want my "master version" of the  
> code to have any interaction with it. If this were to, say, be set  
> up on nakedmud.org, I'd be perfectly happy if each official release  
> were retroactively integrated into the source tree as a means for  
> distribution and tracking changes from each official release to the  
> next. I just don't want to have to be the person who deals with it.  
> So someone else would need to volunteer for this burden.
>
> Geoff
>
> On Sep 17, 2008, at 6:11 PM, Alex Vidal wrote:
>
>>
>> I think that the adoption and development of NakedMud would move a  
>> lot faster
>> and be much more accessible if we had a website (at least a bug  
>> tracker)
>> that talks about it. I know at one time nakedmud.org was a live  
>> site, but it
>> had very little content.
>>
>> fake edit: i just noticed the domain expired, so I grabbed it. If  
>> you want
>> it Geoff, I'll transfer it over to you.
>>
>> Now that nakedmud.org is registered again, we should look at  
>> running a
>> website with a bug tracker/source control, such as trac. We can  
>> have forums
>> there as well, for people that want to develop on the nakedmud  
>> source, and
>> for people that want to develop muds using nakedmud as the codebase.
>>
>> Geoff: Is nakedmud currently in source control? If so, I'd love to  
>> be able
>> to import the source tree into something like Trac or some other  
>> equivalent.
>>
>> For now, I'll put links on the nakedmud.org page to the mailing  
>> list as well
>> as the current nakedmud 'website'
>> (http://homepages.uc.edu/~hollisgf/nakedmud.html)
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/NakedMud- 
>> Website-and-Bug-Tracker--tp1096727p1096727.html
>> Sent from the NakedMUD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Doug Miller-2
NakedMUD'ers,

Ok, Ok, I'll bite. Here's just my $0.02 though.

The Short:

Forms/Wiki instead of the mailing list:  Thumbs Up!
Source Code Management:  Possibly Thumbs Up!
Bug Tracker:  Thumbs Up!

If you really want to see why I chose these, read on.  I'm in a chatty mood
today! ;)

Mailing List Vs. Forums/Wiki

I prefer forums and/or a wiki over a mailing list.  I always find it more
difficult to search and not as easy to keep everything in order.  Also,
moving stuff around (Wiki/Forums) and sticky-ing (Forums) and the like are
better than multiple folders, sorting rules for topics, etc. since I try to
keep things tidy.

On another note, the users tend to keep these up to date as developers come
and go or don't care to maintain these more mundane things.  This usually
makes for a more complete documentation experience ("User" Manuals? Hints
for beginning developers? Etc.).  We've all probably read the intro
documentation at one time or another.  I think it would be awesome to make
this more collaborative.

Source Code Management

I really enjoy Trac/SVN combination for projects.  This lets me diff
versions online and create/maintain handy little tickets.  Typically, I tend
to help more with a project that offers stuff like this (not on the scale of
the Linux kernel maybe, but on smaller hobby type projects).

Though, I'd point out that this is more designed to have multiple developers
working from/with.  Using a single "master copy" that is just going to be
copied when released and not while its being actively developed doesn't help
too much.  The advantage of having "nightly builds" is seeing where
development is going.  I can drop in the released versions on my own SVN
server if I just want to browse the source via the web or diff versions with
Trac.

For the source control solution to work - and be useful - the "daily
progress" would likely need to be committed.  I also like these because
there can be multiple developers who can commit.  A developer hiatus doesn't
necessarily spell the end for the project.  Not that a hiatus would kill the
project in this case, since the source code is available.  I'm not trying to
dethrone Geoff at all, just an added feature. :)

Which leads us to... Using the source control in the above manner results in
changing the development routine.  I don't think Geoff wants to change (or
for that matter even should) how things related to NakedMud work.  It seems
to have gone well for nearly 4 years already (has it been that long
already?)..... or, maybe it is time to change the development cycle a bit.

Bug Tracking

However, the bug tracking system would be useful with or without source code
control.

Doug

All words expressed above are under GNU GPL copyright. All the bad, off
color, prejudice, analogies/opinions/thoughts/etc., written or implied, are
not mine, whereas all the good, informative, insightful
analogies/opinions/thoughts/etc., written or implied, can be wholly cited as
belonging to me.  Thanks for your attention. ;)

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Geoff Hollis <[hidden email]> wrote:

>    A few thoughts.
>
> Forums: I'm mainly interested in these because I've always felt that, for a
> new reader, the barrier of entry for a forum is lower than that of a mailing
> it. It also makes more prominent past discussions, so topics don't
> completely fall out of visibility once people stop discussing them.
>
> Wiki: The main purpose would as a means of cataloging "useful information
> for development" and "stuff that needs to be done". However, on the scale of
> a MUD codebase, forums do this just as well. So it would be an or thing.
> Either we go with a wiki and keep the mailing list OR we go with forums.
>
> Source Control: Ok, so here's something I'm hazy on. For
> tracking/distributing releases, what are the benefits of source control over
> how I'm currently doing it? My intuition was that having source control
> would make things a little easier to track, and a little more
> straightforward to distribute. Even though I really have no interest in my
> master copy interacting with source control, if it means easier distribution
> and tracking, I could bite the bullet and check in my master copy after
> every major release. If source control doesn't really add anything
> practical, though, I might have to rethink this.
>
> Googlecode: I like google, I like beer. I'll have to take a look.
>
> On Sep 18, 2008, at 2:14 AM, Patrick Mylund Nielsen wrote:
>
>
> For sure I can host the static files and a version control repository -- an
> instance of Trac and a forum I'm a little more worried about -- at least in
> the long-term. The question is, does NakedMud really need a forum? There's
> already a mailing list, there'll be a wiki, but a forum too?
>
> Actually... Google Code (code.google.com) (Wiki, release distribution,
> bug/issue tracker, source control (but not obligatory)) can do all of the
> above without anyone really having to 'set up' anything, and it's ...well,
> free as in beer. Its bug tracker beats managing bug threads in a forum
> anyday. I'd do this, personally; makehttp://code.google.com/nakedmud the
> website+wiki+bugtracking+CVS (if you want to) and refer people to this
> group/mailing list for discussion.
>
> Google Groups is a more forum-style mailing list, but switching at this
> point isn't feasible I suppose. I find this mailing list, minus all the
> stupidly large Yahoo ads of course, perfectly sufficient for discussion --
> the project doesn't really have the level of chatter to make both that AND a
> forum attractive, imo.
>
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 1:09 AM, Geoff Hollis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> 1. I would love to have a wiki-type bugtracker, or at the least some sort
>> of form where people can submit bugs/fixes they've identified. The less
>> involvement it requires from me to maintain, the better.
>>
>> 2. I am canceling my mudmagic hosting in the next couple weeks. As sad as
>> it is, I cannot afford $10/month on my student salary. Patrick Neilsen has
>> just offered to host us for free (<3). If you plan on keeping
>> nakedmud.org, let's see if we can redirect it to his hosting machine (ohh
>> wait, I guess I should check if he's going to give me http priviledges as
>> well...?). I'd offer to pay for the domain but, as per mudmagic, I just
>> can't afford it right now. If you don't want to carry the burden of paying
>> for the domain name either, that's perfectly understandable.
>>
>> 3. Forums would rock.
>>
>> 4. No, NakedMud isn't in source control. I intend to keep it this way. The
>> core engine is my hobby project. Being a hobby project, I like to keep the
>> number of rigid structures constraining it to a minimum, lest my hobby time
>> be filled with dealing with formalities (and it will be, as soon as there's
>> other people with access to NM through versioning software). In the long
>> run, I realize this is a very bad on my part. However, from a hobby
>> standpoint, it's the path I want to take. People are still encouraged to
>> develop/proliferate their own stand-alone modules (which I will gladly post
>> on the website if people send them to me) as a means of adding to the
>> codebase, but keeping it independent from the core. I acknowledge this
>> reasoning is horribly faulty, and that a million reasons could be spun up as
>> to why NM should be in a versioning system, online. I still highly doubt
>> I'll change my ways. Ca! ll me an anti-perfectionist and/or a control freak
>> if you must...
>>
>> The bottom line: a website with more content would rock. I am especially
>> interested in forums, and/or a way for people to submit bugs that can be
>> automatically tracked in some sort of log (because when people send me stuff
>> via email, 50% I forget to add it to my todo list).
>>
>> The bottomer line: the less overhead I have to deal with, the better.
>> Chances are nil that I would set up a functional website and forums myself.
>> Not because I don't think it's useful, just because I'm not interested in
>> doing it. However, if someone else were to get everything you've described
>> set up, I'd make sure it gets hosted.
>>
>> p.s., In principle, I'm not opposed to getting NM set up in cvs, svn, or
>> Trac, online. I just don't want my "master version" of the code to have any
>> interaction with it. If this were to, say, be set up on nakedmud.org, I'd
>> be perfectly happy if each official release were retroactively integrated
>> into the source tree as a means for distribution and tracking changes from
>> each official release to the next. I just don't want to have to be the
>> person who deals with it. So someone else would need to volunteer for this
>> burden.
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>> On Sep 17, 2008, at 6:11 PM, Alex Vidal wrote:
>>
>>
>> I think that the adoption and development of NakedMud would move a lot
>> faster
>> and be much more accessible if we had a website (at least a bug tracker)
>> that talks about it. I know at one time nakedmud.org was a live site, but
>> it
>> had very little content.
>>
>> fake edit: i just noticed the domain expired, so I grabbed it. If you want
>> it Geoff, I'll transfer it over to you.
>>
>> Now that nakedmud.org is registered again, we should look at running a
>> website with a bug tracker/source control, such as trac. We can have
>> forums
>> there as well, for people that want to develop on the nakedmud source, and
>> for people that want to develop muds using nakedmud as the codebase.
>>
>> Geoff: Is nakedmud currently in source control? If so, I'd love to be able
>> to import the source tree into something like Trac or some other
>> equivalent.
>>
>> For now, I'll put links on the nakedmud.org page to the mailing list as
>> well
>> as the current nakedmud 'website'
>> (http://homepages.uc.edu/~hollisgf/nakedmud.html<http://homepages.uc.edu/%7Ehollisgf/nakedmud.html>
>> )
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://n2.nabble.com/NakedMud-Website-and-Bug-Tracker--tp1096727p1096727.html
>> Sent from the NakedMUD mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  
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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Alex Vidal
In regards to the development cycle and source control:

I was thinking about this as well, and I think that if there was an 'official' branch (ie, Geoff's releases) and then 'unofficial branches' (other developers).  The trunk would be the latest (working) features from all branches.  When Geoff commits a release, a tag is made for that 'official' release, then his branch is merged into the trunk.  All 'official' releases would be versions directly from Geoff's branch, where as 'community releases' or some such, would be releases from the trunk, which are combinations of what other developers are working on and what Geoff is working on.

The core of NakedMUD probably does not need much more to function as intended, but some things that we could make into unofficial branches would be NakedMUD-Lua, or NakedMUD-MySQL, or even a much more full-fledged example MUD (on the lines of the circle starting world/characters/etc).

It would allow the developer community to work on new features for NakedMUD, or perhaps fix some bugs that Geoff doesn't have time for, as well as provide instant access to new releases of NakedMUD for the entire userbase.

It wouldn't change Geoff's workflow significantly, since all he'd have to do is commit every once inawhile (perhaps after fixing a bug or two), which is a simple one-liner (svn commit -m"<log message>"), and it'll commit it straight into the 'official' branch, and when a release is ready he could `svn commit -m"release x.y"`, and I'll setup a subversion post-commit hook to email me when Geoff commit's a new release, and then I'll go in and create the patch files, make sure the merge doesn't conflict and that it builds, etc.

SVN repository layout example:
nakedmud/
--branches/
----official
----nakedmud-mysql
----nakedmud-lua
----newhelp
--releases/
----stable
----nakedmud-0.5.1
----nakedmud-0.5.2
--trunk/

The releases are tags that point to revisions from the official branch, and the trunk would be the latest release + some of the other branches that build and are being considered for inclusion into the 'core' release.
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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Alex Vidal
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
I've got Trac and a subversion repository setup currently at http://www.nakedmud.org/trac/

I'll try to get some kind of introductory page going at www.nakedmud.org, or at least, a redirect to Trac for the time being.

Geoff, if you're down, I'll make a branch for you and set you up as a user so you can just commit straight into a repository.

Anyone else who would like to contribute, you can start by modifying the wiki pages.

The repository currently has 3.6 as it is from the tarball on Geoff's site, with a tag to the current head so that anyone can come in and download 3.6. I'll probably put the tarball in as a direct download as well.

Anyone that has contributed plugins or modifications to the core, let me know and I can put them into the repository on a branch.
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Re: NakedMud Website and Bug Tracker?

Alex Vidal
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
The version history now contains all of the releases tagged and uploaded, which is pretty cool. Thanks to Doug Miller for that.

The next step, imo, is porting all of the tex/pdf docs into wiki format and sticking them on the wiki, as well as uploading some of the different modules that have been written, and a few tutorials.

Anyone that wants to help, just send me an email at alex.vidal@gmail.com and I'll see that you have access.